Monday, 24 June 2013< ^ >
Arjan has set the subject to: Zotonic - The Erlang Web Framework & CMS
Room Configuration

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[09:35:56] <Andreas Stenius> the published logs saved my day :D
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[10:02:52] <Arjan> I noticed that search_query is not yet a record
[10:03:14] <Arjan> z_search does:
case z_notifier:first({search_query, {SearchName, PropsSorted}, OffsetLimit}, Context) of
[10:03:25] <Arjan> instead of:
case z_notifier:first(#search_query{...}, Context) of
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[11:11:03] <z-bot> [SamuelG] So I am lucky to talk to you. First, I have to confess that I admire you. The reason why I joined this IRC channel is that I wondered how much it would cost to host Zotonic. Do I need to have a whole server or can I share ?
[11:11:09] <z-bot> [kaos] My z-bot was down.. (there's a bug in there somewhere).. but when he's around, he'll bridge messages between here and the jabber room, which is the more "official" chat room for zotonic...
[11:11:46] <z-bot> [kaos] zotonic has really moderate requirements..
[11:12:20] <z-bot> [kaos] currently there's no specific zotonic hosting service (although there are several planning on offering just that)
[11:12:27] <z-bot> [SamuelG] About how much would it cost me to host a site without many visitors.
[11:12:31] <z-bot> [SamuelG] ?
[11:12:33] <z-bot> [kaos] so you'd have to get a vps or some such to host it
[11:13:35] <z-bot> [kaos] I don't know really, as I don't use VPS'es myself..
[11:13:52] <z-bot> [SamuelG] What are the advantages of Zotonic compared to those of Chicago Boss?
[11:14:55] <z-bot> [kaos] That's a good question. I don't have a good answer, simply since I don't know much about Chicago Boss..
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[11:15:29] <z-bot> [kaos] but please ask on the zotonic mailing list, and I'm sure there are others who've experience with both can share their insights :)
[11:15:29] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Maybe CB is only a framework whereas Zotonic is both a framework and a CMS?
[11:15:47] <z-bot> [kaos] There may be more in the box with zotonic, yes.
[11:16:22] <arjan> there is a comparison table for the erlang-based web systems
[11:16:37] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Ah, also. I saw that it was not really designed to be installed on Windows... but preferably on Linux. Is it true ?
[11:16:52] <arjan> https://github.com/evanmiller/ChicagoBoss/wiki/Comparison-of-Erlang-Web-Frameworks
[11:17:17] <z-bot> [kaos] yes, zotonic is not easy to get up and running on windows (and as such, not supported )
[11:17:59] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Could I use something like Cygwin or do I have to install Linux?
[11:18:08] <z-bot> [kaos] the eaisest path to zotonic, if you're on windows, is to use a virtual linux machine (using vagrant with virtualbox makes it really easy to setup)
[11:19:29] <z-bot> [kaos] there was a zotonic tutorial on the Erlang User Conference a couple of weeks ago, using vagrant. You can check it out here: https://github.com/arjan/zotonic-vagrant-tutorial
[11:20:22] <z-bot> [kaos] Thanks arjan, that comparison slipped my mind.. :p
[11:20:26] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Which other languages do you know besides Erlang?
[11:21:00] <z-bot> [kaos] A whil
[11:21:05] <z-bot> [kaos] blarg..
[11:21:08] <z-bot> [kaos] A whole bunch..
[11:21:22] <z-bot> [kaos] mostly procedural, though..
[11:22:23] <z-bot> [kaos] if you're really curious about it, you can always checkout my CV at www.astekk.se (in swedish, but looking at the languages should make sense any way)
[11:22:52] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Jag kan tala pa svenska ochsaa
[11:23:11] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Jag är fransk.
[11:23:30] <z-bot> [kaos] inte illa.. :)
[11:23:53] <z-bot> [kaos] hur kommer det sig att du kan svenska, som fransk?
[11:24:45] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Jag var utbyttestudent i Karlstad.
[11:24:59] <z-bot> [kaos] Ah.. :)
[11:25:02] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Men det var 23 ar sedan!
[11:25:33] <z-bot> [kaos] Wow.. att du fortfarande kommer ihåg svenska efter alla år
[11:25:43] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Litte gran bara.
[11:26:03] <z-bot> [kaos] :)
[11:26:42] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Do you think that it would be better to start with a website in PHP and when I have many visitors on my site, then I can switch to Zotonic ?
[11:27:03] <z-bot> [kaos] well..
[11:27:40] <z-bot> [kaos] it may be quite a bit of work to switch.. so if you expect a lot of traffic.. why start with something that won't cope with it?
[11:28:27] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. You are probably right, but it means I also have to learn Linux also, install a Virtual Box...
[11:28:29] <z-bot> [kaos] if you're not familiar with Erlang, or functional language, it may be a learning curve to get started though..
[11:28:54] <z-bot> [kaos] that's the easy part, actually... :p
[11:29:21] <z-bot> [SamuelG] By the way, why is http://www.astekk.se/ not powered by Zotonic instead of this basic Google Site?
[11:29:44] <z-bot> [kaos] I have my blog at blog.astekk.se which is zotonic powered..
[11:30:07] <z-bot> [kaos] the www site is just a front page for my business.. :p
[11:30:20] <z-bot> [kaos] which doesn't really need a website any way..
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[11:30:46] <z-bot> [kaos] haven't bothered to move it (I created it before I met zotonic..)
[11:31:01] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Ah, I see. I have started learning Haskell, then OCaml. Do you think that they are good for web development?
[11:32:01] <z-bot> [kaos] no experience with either of those. But from what I've heard about haskell is that it may be tricky to use due to their strict side effect free functions... no idea about OCaml..
[11:32:14] <z-bot> [kaos] but I'd prefer any functional language for a procedural one..
[11:32:48] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Yes, it is what everyone says, or writes.
[11:32:50] <z-bot> [kaos] I think erlang is a good fit due to it's heritage of many small processes and fault tolerance
[11:33:36] <z-bot> [kaos] And of course, I may also be biased towards it as it's roots are from Stockholm.. :p
[11:34:23] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Yes, I know that Erlang is from Sweden. If I want, for example, to build modules to help teachers calculate marks automatically with different coefficients; is that possible and/or difficult with Erlang?
[11:35:21] <z-bot> [kaos] I'd say no, it's not difficult.. but you'd have to know your way around Erlang, of course
[11:35:57] <z-bot> [kaos] but then, I don't fully understand the problem either :p
[11:37:29] <z-bot> [SamuelG] If I want to build something like Moodle, a famous Learning Management System, made in PHP. Would that be feasible with some knowledge of Erlang?
[11:38:56] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Then I also want to motenize my website. Does your company provide assistance with monetization issues?
[11:42:16] <z-bot> [kaos] I have no experience in the field of monetization, but the core team work individually, so if you post your question to the mailing list, there may be others that do have that experience (from the core team, or maybe other zotonic users that can offer such services)..
[11:42:33] z-bot [kaos] is looking up Moodle..
[11:42:53] <Maas> I know a teacher who is a huge fan of moodle.
[11:43:35] <Maas> It is quite big inside schools in the netherlands I believe.
[11:44:20] <z-bot> [kaos] I think it's feasible to build a moodle like site using zotonic; after a quick glance at the moodle demo site..
[11:47:41] <z-bot> [SamuelG] What are you working on at the moment?
[11:48:10] <z-bot> [SamuelG] I mean: which aspects of development are you interested in?
[11:49:10] <z-bot> [kaos] I'm interested in communication, algorithms, embedded (low level) (in no particular order)
[11:49:48] <z-bot> [kaos] zotonic-wise I'm currently working on getting zotonic to be able to use the current version of ErlyDTL instead of the forked when we have today..
[11:50:07] <z-bot> [kaos] when* -> one
[11:51:33] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. I wish I would be able to help, unfortunately, this is too technical for me. I am a French and English teacher with a passion for communication (linguistics and technical aspects).
[11:55:12] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. I may try to install a Virtual box and learn Linux. I had a bad experience with a Linux Virtunal box, though a few years ago: it crashed. You do not think that it can damage the Windows 8 installation?
[11:56:07] <z-bot> [kaos] no, your windows installation should be fine
[11:57:22] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Sorry, what is the name of the Virtual Box that you recommended me?
[11:57:26] <z-bot> [kaos] but I should perhaps warn you that zotonic is not yet that user friendly for non-technical people.. so you may end up investing quite a bit of time to get what you want with zotonic..
[11:57:48] <z-bot> [kaos] https://www.virtualbox.org/
[11:58:00] <z-bot> [kaos] together with http://www.vagrantup.com/
[11:58:31] <z-bot> [kaos] then you can clone https://github.com/arjan/zotonic-vagrant-tutorial and you should have a running zotonic instance without too much hassle.. :)
[11:58:45] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. It is OK as long as I can have access to a good documentation.
[11:59:34] <z-bot> [kaos] (git clone https://github.com/arjan/zotonic-vagrant-tutorial.git ; cd zotonic-vagrant-tutorial ; vagrant up ; vagrant ssh ; /zotonic/start)
[11:59:57] <z-bot> [kaos] docs are at: http://zotonic.com/docs/0.9/index.html
[12:00:19] <z-bot> [kaos] they've recently been improved upon, but there's still work to be done in that area..
[12:01:48] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Once I understand well how to set up the working environment, I can help in writing the documentation. By the way, I am looking for a job as a documentation writer or technical writer. Do you need someone in your company?
[12:09:46] <z-bot> [kaos] no, I'm sorry. I'm a one man business doing some consultancy work..
[12:10:38] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Ah. OK. Thank you for your help, anyway. If you want to contact me, please use this address: sgandin1972@yahoo.fr. Thank you again! Bye
[12:13:44] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Oh. I forgot: instead of installing a Virtual Box, wouldn't it be recommended to install a dual system? It does not matter if I need to reboot my computer to change operating systems.
[12:14:49] <z-bot> [kaos] running a linux system on bare metal will give you superior performance compared to a virtualized system.. so if that's not an issue, go for it :)
[12:15:05] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. Which of free distribution of Linux would you recommend: Ubuntu or OpenSuze, which I think is also free?
[12:15:44] <arjan> ubuntu
[12:15:49] <z-bot> [kaos] which ever tickles your fance, I suppose. I think Ubuntu is pretty common.. I use Fedora (also free)..
[12:15:49] <arjan> server edition
[12:15:53] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Why?
[12:16:36] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Do you have a dual installation or only Linux?
[12:16:57] <z-bot> [kaos] I run dual (and virtual) as my day-time job requires windows..
[12:18:03] <z-bot> [SamuelG] OK. Why do you prefer Linux over Windows besides to work on Zotonic?
[12:19:10] <z-bot> [kaos] to get away from windows? :p
[12:19:35] <z-bot> [kaos] seriously though.. a lot of software I use are open source and are better supported on linux
[12:19:50] <z-bot> [kaos] it's easier to find and install them as well..
[12:20:14] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Ah, really. Is it difficult to use the consols?
[12:20:14] <z-bot> [kaos] and I like the desktop better :)
[12:20:57] <bronzeboyvn> http://www.webfaction.com/?affiliate=cliha , you can host zotonic on webfaction
[12:21:17] <z-bot> [kaos] well... what's difficult for one is easy for another.. it comes down to your skills and how easy you have to learn new things..
[12:21:35] <z-bot> [SamuelG] Indeed. Thank you z-bot.
[12:21:49] <z-bot> [kaos] eh, that was from bronzeboyvn
[12:22:12] <z-bot> [kaos] z-bot simply bridged the message.. ;)
[12:22:23] <z-bot> [kaos] bah.. :p
[12:22:55] <bronzeboyvn> haha, z-bot just sync msg from xmpp and irc
[12:22:56] <z-bot> [kaos] and for you on the jabber side, I said "bah.. :p" in response to:
[12:22:56] <z-bot> [kaos] (12:22:12 PM) z-bot: Huh?! I don't know what you are talking about, kaos. (simply)
[12:23:28] <bronzeboyvn> I'm in conference.zotonic.com of xmpp server
[12:23:50] <bronzeboyvn> are you in irc ?
[12:23:54] <z-bot> [kaos] zotonic@conference.zotonic.com to be precise
[12:24:04] <z-bot> [kaos] yes, we're on #zotonic on freenode.irc.net
[12:24:33] <Andreas Stenius> but I'm on xmpp too.. ;)
[12:24:41] <bronzeboyvn> zotonic guy said that z-bot also translate
[12:24:51] <bronzeboyvn> :) you can ask Andreas
[12:24:52] <Andreas Stenius> yeah, it does..
[12:25:00] <z-bot> [kaos] kaos = Andreas
[12:26:11] <z-bot> [SamuelG] I am only on IRC. OK. Thank you bronzeboyvn and Andreas. Bye.
[12:26:19] <z-bot> [kaos] Bye :)
[13:03:04] <Andreas Stenius> arjan: I got it!
[13:03:13] <Andreas Stenius> when switching branches for building the docs..
[13:03:20] <Andreas Stenius> don't use checkout, but reset
[13:03:30] <Andreas Stenius> create a temp branch to work off..
[13:03:50] <Andreas Stenius> then reset it to whatever branch we want, that way, it won't bother with conflicting files etc
[13:03:54] <Andreas Stenius> so
[13:04:07] <Andreas Stenius> git co -b temp
[13:04:31] <Andreas Stenius> git reste --hard master (to build master) or git reset --hard release-0.9.x (to build 0.9)
[13:05:12] <Andreas Stenius> checkout and reset work pretty much the same, except for a few important differences
[13:05:58] <Andreas Stenius> checkout moves HEAD whereas reset moves the branch HEAD points to being the most important difference
[13:07:01] <Andreas Stenius> this is a really good post discussing reset (and touches on the similiarities with checkout): http://git-scm.com/blog/2011/07/11/reset.html
I've read it before, but it pays to revisit it at times.. :)
[13:20:28] <arjan> thanks!
[13:20:34] <arjan> I'll implement it like that
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[13:24:48] <Andreas Stenius> while your at it, maybe add a /docs/stable/ url as well (which will simply point to the same docs as /doc/0.9/ right now...)?
[13:25:45] <Andreas Stenius> at some places it makes sense to refer to the latest stable docs, rather then a fixed version (like the link to the docs from the zotonic command for instance)
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[21:50:27] <arjan> fixed the .woff mime type
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