Thursday, 4 October 2012< ^ >
arjan has set the subject to: Zotonic - the Erlang Content Management Framework
Room Configuration

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[08:41:45] <maas.maarten.zeeman> If you don't forget to increase your ulimit that is :-)
[08:44:56] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Hmm, thinking about that. It would be nice to see the current limit on a status page of some sorts.
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[09:22:40] <andreas.stenius> maas.maarten.zeeman: overview of what a module has to offer is given on the index page.
[09:22:56] <andreas.stenius> collected from .. index:: tags
[09:23:28] <andreas.stenius> we also use .. seealso:: tags for cross referencing...
[09:24:27] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Ok. I have opted for a list with a short explanation to get a sense of overview. Didn't know about the see also thing.
[09:24:54] <maas.maarten.zeeman> How do you make a reference/link to another document?
[09:25:03] <andreas.stenius> depends on what it is...
[09:25:20] <andreas.stenius> but I guess your looking for :ref:`action-connect` for instance
[09:25:44] <andreas.stenius> that will give a link, pointing to the connect action, labeled connect
[09:25:58] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Yes, thanks.
[09:26:07] <andreas.stenius> the target for that link is defined with .. _action-connect:
[09:26:31] <andreas.stenius> most of the target and index tags are generated in the ref section of the docs... (with make stubs)
[09:26:44] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Do I have to put in the target too?
[09:27:00] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Typed too quick :-/
[09:27:02] <andreas.stenius> no, not for the action-connect target, it's there already
[09:27:06] <andreas.stenius> ;)
[09:27:59] <maas.maarten.zeeman> I really like this :-)
[09:31:07] <andreas.stenius> :)
[09:31:46] <maas.maarten.zeeman> A little bit of focus just helps.
[09:39:18] <andreas.stenius> bah, github scared me for a second (well, few minutes) fooling me to think I had accidently removed all documentation and committed it. Took a while before I spotted that I was browsing an older tree... 2xBah. anyway, as a seealso example, http://zotonic.com/docs/ref/actions/action_slide_fade_in.html
[09:40:46] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Thanks. I will update the stuff in the afternoon. Got work to do :-)
[09:41:04] <andreas.stenius> np :)
[09:52:18] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Sounds scary. Just like when I typed rm * .o before submitting an assignment at university. Big oops.
[09:53:09] <arjan> maas.maarten.zeeman: nice doc entry
[09:53:29] <arjan> *entries
[09:53:30] <arjan> :)
[09:53:32] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Just converted the existing one. :-)
[09:54:04] <arjan> One thing about headings
[09:54:23] <arjan> RST makes different levels of headings based on the underline style
[09:54:33] <arjan> we usually use ==== for H1
[09:54:38] <arjan> then ---- for H2, ..... for H3
[09:54:54] <andreas.stenius> we should document those
[09:55:11] <arjan> I will do that
[09:55:14] <andreas.stenius> since it's not set in stone by sphinx or it's tools what should mean what...
[09:55:21] <andreas.stenius> :)
[09:55:22] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Aha. Which one do we want at what location?
[09:55:50] <arjan> there should be only 1 H1 per file
[09:55:58] <arjan> and that one is in the generated meta-*.rst file
[09:56:03] <arjan> so the next level is ---------
[09:56:40] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Aha.
[09:57:59] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Zotonic is cool. Just found out it already supports plain html files as media item.
[09:58:31] <arjan> oh really?
[09:59:31] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Just what I need. It recognizes the thing as text/html and all. No viewer though.
[09:59:54] <andreas.stenius> arjan: tag_print.rst looks strange on my machine (line 17), ends after closing "... ?
[10:00:58] <andreas.stenius> but the built output is fine...
[10:02:33] <arjan> lets see
[10:02:53] <arjan> looks alright here..?
[10:03:00] <arjan> you mean the quotation marks?
[10:03:24] <andreas.stenius> yeah, the quote marks isn't showing right, and I guess that's the reason why I don't see the rest of the line...
[10:03:58] <andreas.stenius> a cat tag_print.rst gives:
When value is â<b>Hello</b> world!â
[10:04:14] <andreas.stenius> and I ses the same in emacs.... :/
[10:05:03] <arjan> When value is “<b>Hello</b> world!” then the example above returns the output::
[10:05:11] <arjan> those are "mac-style" quotes
[10:05:16] <andreas.stenius> what locale do you use?
[10:05:17] <andreas.stenius> ah
[10:05:18] <arjan> copypaste from the site
[10:05:22] <arjan> utf-8 I guess?
[10:05:28] <arjan> not sure
[10:05:33] <arjan> how do you check that in emacs? :P
[10:06:01] <andreas.stenius> uhm... let me check
[10:06:11] <Marc Worrell> everything should be utf-8
[10:06:19] <Marc Worrell> i use the nice quotes quite a lot :p
[10:06:37] <Marc Worrell> and we will need to put in some arabic as examples of rtl text
[10:06:41] <arjan> utf-8-unix
[10:06:49] <arjan> yes I dont mind those quotes actually
[10:06:56] <arjan> although Im to lazy to type them myself :P
[10:07:24] <andreas.stenius> I don't minde them as soon as I learn how to work with them... :P
[10:07:54] <arjan> http://zotonic.com/docs/dev/documentation.html#heading-styles
[10:07:56] <andreas.stenius> I have utf-8 as locale at least.. and emacs ought to be sensible enough about them.... strange
[10:07:56] <arjan> for maas
[10:08:07] <maas.maarten.zeeman> Thanks!
[10:08:21] <arjan> andreas.stenius: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_encoding_decoding_faq.html
[10:08:26] <arjan> first faq
[10:08:51] <andreas.stenius> ah, thanks
[10:09:30] <andreas.stenius> it's utf-8-unix
[10:09:44] <andreas.stenius> hmmm... maybe it's my terminal...
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[10:11:29] <arjan> it looks good on the site, right?
[10:11:41] <andreas.stenius> yep
[10:11:49] <arjan> ah youre an emacs-on-the-terminal guy :)
[10:12:07] <andreas.stenius> over ssh, yeah :)
[10:12:13] <arjan> I still have too many terminal-incompatible shortcut keys :P
[10:12:24] <andreas.stenius> hah...
[10:12:37] <andreas.stenius> I prefer to work in a nix system...
[10:12:54] <andreas.stenius> but then again, I come in over a putty connection :/
[10:13:16] <arjan> I just have linux on the desktop ;)
[10:13:17] <andreas.stenius> could try to open up the file in a local x session, then I have my local fonts instead of the terminal ones...
[10:13:33] <andreas.stenius> I haven't bothered to set that up yet...
[10:13:51] <andreas.stenius> since my day $ comes from a windows environment.. :p
[10:14:14] <arjan> heh
[10:14:31] <arjan> actually before I switched, I used Emacs in windows for years
[10:16:29] <andreas.stenius> I put as much of my $ work into cygwin I can, will ease migrations later, I hope... :)
[10:16:41] <arjan> maas.maarten.zeeman: one more hint, http://zotonic.com/docs/dev/documentation.html#references ;-)
[10:17:40] <maas.maarten.zeeman> When I started windows was not suit for development at all :-/ A mistake could literally blow up your windows.
[10:18:00] <maas.maarten.zeeman> No protection
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[10:20:34] <andreas.stenius> Ah, yes. PuTTY, dear PuTTY... it was under Translation, it had to be set to UTF-8 there too... was ISO-8859-1 (Latin-1) I think...
[10:20:39] <arjan> ah yes
[10:20:44] <arjan> thats puty's default setting
[10:20:51] <andreas.stenius> darn thing
[10:21:04] <andreas.stenius> Marc Worrell: how do I enter those quotes, then?
[10:21:16] <arjan> you would need a special device for that
[10:21:24] <andreas.stenius> I know I've replace a few of them in my migration work...
[10:21:28] <arjan> aluminum-colored, with a giant image on it in the shape of an apple
[10:21:32] <arjan> :P
[10:21:57] <andreas.stenius> Ah, I have a "portable" version of those... (17")
[10:22:42] <Marc Worrell> andreas.stenius: on a mac?
[10:22:46] <andreas.stenius> seriously, there has to be some finger-breaking key stroke one can use
[10:22:53] <Marc Worrell> yes
[10:22:58] <Marc Worrell> “’
[10:23:08] <andreas.stenius> I'm currently not on a Mac...
[10:23:09] <Marc Worrell> option-[ and shift-option-[
[10:23:12] <Marc Worrell> aha
[10:23:13] <Marc Worrell> lol
[10:23:31] <arjan> ¨
[10:23:33] <arjan> no
[10:23:36] <andreas.stenius> thanks, I'll keep those for later
[10:23:49] <Ilya Rezvov> can i use markdown in my pages?
[10:24:03] <andreas.stenius> a std keyboard, running windows, connected to a terminal emacs over 2xSSH...
[10:24:16] <andreas.stenius> Ilya Rezvov: not at the moment...
[10:24:21] <Ilya Rezvov> i find z_html2markdown
[10:24:36] <Ilya Rezvov> but don't find where it is used
[10:24:43] <andreas.stenius> I think you'd have to call that yourself...
[10:25:01] <Marc Worrell> not used yet
[10:25:16] <Marc Worrell> oh, html2markdown is used in the e-mailer
[10:25:27] <Marc Worrell> markdown2html is not used yet
[10:25:48] <Marc Worrell> still want to add that nice full screen markdown editor with preview and lights and whistles
[10:25:50] <Ilya Rezvov> maybe make the filter | markdown?
[10:26:02] <Ilya Rezvov> i edit markdown in emacs
[10:26:11] <Marc Worrell> bit expensive filter :p (runtime costs)
[10:29:10] <arjan> “test”
[10:29:52] <arjan> andreas.stenius: do you use the compose key for entering accented chars?
[10:30:00] <arjan> if so you can do compose+<, "
[10:30:06] <arjan> and compose+>, "
[10:30:14] <arjan> “this is a quote”
[10:30:19] <arjan> http://www.hermit.org/Linux/ComposeKeys.html
[10:31:17] <andreas.stenius> uhm... don't think so, but thanks for the reference
[10:32:09] <arjan> oh no ofcourse not if youre on windows, mmm
[10:32:19] <arjan> well, I found it out for myself :P
[10:33:51] <andreas.stenius> ah, type ^x 8 ^h in emacs for a table of key bindings and what they do :)
[10:33:54] <Marc Worrell> alt-3245341264363 on windows, I guess
[10:34:05] <andreas.stenius> too long :P
[10:34:17] <Marc Worrell> utf-8, there are lots of characters :p
[10:34:38] <andreas.stenius> and it came out wrong too... (but that may be due to the terminal in between...)
[10:35:03] <arjan> if you use alt+xxx you might end up entering a latin-1 character
[10:35:20] <andreas.stenius> ah
[10:35:45] <Marc Worrell> argghhh
[10:36:14] <arjan> jep
[10:36:30] <arjan> I dont know if that is still the case but that used to be so back in the day
[10:36:46] <arjan> e.g. alt+137 is a é but in latin1
[10:37:44] <Maas> I'm to dumb/lazy to memorize that stuff.
[10:37:45] <andreas.stenius> ok, there was no binding for them, but I found that typing ^x 8 \r 201c and 201d resp. give the quotes...
[10:38:07] <Marc Worrell> what a mess: http://www.fileformat.info/tip/microsoft/enter_unicode.htm
[10:38:08] <andreas.stenius> could bind that to some key sequence...
[10:38:47] <Maas> At least it is documented ;-)
[10:39:14] <arjan> heh
[10:39:16] <andreas.stenius> nice, will give that a shot
[10:41:28] <Maas> @marc the markdown filter could memo the result. Just 1 time big runtime cost.
[10:42:18] <andreas.stenius> nah, doesn't seem to work for me. Don't know if the change to the registry has to be during boot.... ?
[10:44:30] <andreas.stenius> Yay, alt-8220 and alt-8221 works too! :D
[10:44:57] <Marc Worrell> @maas such a filter is ok when generating output that is cached
[10:45:16] <andreas.stenius> Marc Worrell: where did you come up with that big number, any way?
[10:45:26] <Marc Worrell> @maas that is why we pre-escape all our content
[10:45:38] <Marc Worrell> @andreas random input from my keyboard
[10:45:48] <andreas.stenius> aha :p
[10:45:50] <Marc Worrell> @andres the correct sequence is in there, trust me
[10:45:51] <Marc Worrell> :p
[10:46:01] <andreas.stenius> yeah, alt-8220
[10:46:08] <andreas.stenius> and alt-8221
[10:46:43] <arjan> show it!
[10:46:56] <andreas.stenius> pidgin won't take it!
[10:47:02] <arjan> lol
[10:47:17] <andreas.stenius> but putty/ssh/emacs does! :D
[10:47:19] <arjan> are you sure those are utf-8 then?
[10:47:58] <andreas.stenius> uhm... ok, let me double check (they look the same) and 8220 = 201C = unicode "
[10:49:20] <arjan> looks good
[10:50:26] <Marc Worrell> I vaguely remember those numbers from some migration work I did a long time ago
[10:50:34] <Marc Worrell> look familair
[10:52:12] <Maas> @marc pre-escaping is also good for security. Too easy to forget.
[10:52:48] <Marc Worrell> yep
[10:52:50] <andreas.stenius> yep, both the symbols input by emacs, and those with alt key seq match those already in the file
[10:53:27] <andreas.stenius> that is, e2 80 9c, and e2 80 9d for open and close quote marks, resp.
[10:57:59] <Maas> @marc we do some heavy things (xpath transforms, html and js parsing) at run-time. Caching makes it doable for now. At some point I have to do pre-caching I think.
[11:17:15] <andreas.stenius> sphinx extension for documenting HTTP API's: http://packages.python.org/sphinxcontrib-httpdomain/
[11:18:04] <Ilya Rezvov> Marc Worrell: where is js-files important for base functions of zotonic? in mod_base and mod_admin only?
[11:19:12] <andreas.stenius> erlangdomain might come in handy too: https://bitbucket.org/birkenfeld/sphinx-contrib/src/afa07a97ea62/erlangdomain
[11:20:34] <Maas> For channel. Allows us to synchronize js across browsing session. Popping up fancybox, ajax, that kind of stuff.
[11:21:17] <arjan> lol, Im asked to go to a PHP conference this weekend in manchester...
[11:22:50] <Marc Worrell> hahaha
[11:22:58] <Marc Worrell> maybe you can talk about Zotonic there :p
[11:23:21] <Marc Worrell> every conference should have a bit of Erlang and Zotonic in it
[11:23:43] <Marc Worrell> @Ilya, base files are in mod_base
[11:23:57] <Marc Worrell> The stuff in mod_admin is for the admin only
[11:25:16] <Ilya Rezvov> replace functions from z_render works independently from it?
[11:25:36] <Marc Worrell> it uses some jquery, I'm afraid
[11:25:53] <Marc Worrell> it generates the standard replace/append calls for jquery
[11:26:02] <Ilya Rezvov> ok
[11:26:06] <Ilya Rezvov> i check it
[11:26:26] <Ilya Rezvov> thx
[11:26:35] <Marc Worrell> you will also see that we always run the widget stuff over all the inserted html
[11:26:46] <Marc Worrell> that is to handle the "do_xxxxx" classes
[11:27:48] <Marc Worrell> and there is also some trickery involved in splitting the javascript from the html, so that the javascript runs after the html has been done. but that is independent from the js ui library used
[12:16:47] <Maas> Busy with a custom media viewer. Very nice, the observe stuff for a customizable media tag.
[12:20:07] <Maas> btw. i noticed that image files with all capitals like IMG001.JPG are not recognized as jpegs :-/
[12:27:53] <Maas> Duh, my bad. Missing imagemagick on dev machine.
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[14:13:41] <Maas> Still amazed with how many things there are available in zotonic. Is it possible to document it all?
[14:16:01] <Maas> Like how the media tag is handled and how you can implement your own viewers.
[14:21:35] <Maas> Could be nice though to also document the notify messages and what they are supposed to do and return.
[14:52:20] <arjan> yes
[14:52:29] <arjan> I think those things are essential to be documented
[14:54:41] <Marc Worrell> yep
[14:54:48] <Marc Worrell> very essential stuff
[14:55:16] <Marc Worrell> every time I look at other cms systems I appreciate how flexible our structure is
[14:55:55] <Marc Worrell> @maas uh, uhm we might need a tolower on the uploaded names.
[14:56:01] <Marc Worrell> @maas can you make a ticket?
[14:57:02] <Maas> @marc, no I didn't have imagemagick on this machine. Stupid me.
[14:57:52] <Marc Worrell> we use a fallback on the filename — maybe we need to check deps/mimetypes to see if it is case sensitive
[14:58:13] <Maas> Without imagemagick it doesn't recognize any image btw.
[14:58:15] <Marc Worrell> but indeed, we are picky about the mimetype of uploaded files… better be safe than sorry
[14:59:04] <Maas> Going to check what happens if you upload an erl file. Could be compiled and end up in ebin?
[15:00:02] <Maas> But first pick up the kids from school :-)
[15:00:19] <Marc Worrell> @maas good check, please do!
[16:08:56] <Maas> Not a problem erl files becomes text/plain and a txt file :-)
[16:15:24] <Maas> The order in the mime type table in z_media_identify is very important...
[16:20:16] <Maas> Placing an erl in the archive directly also does not cause a problem as it is not included. maxdepth 2 :-)
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